Our blog post below, on the ASA’s decision to split the “C” National in two for 2009 — with half of the teams going to Hastings Nebraska and half going to Decatur has generated a bit of email, so we decided to post the poll below and see what our readers think.

Note that the poll gives you an opportunity to comment on the question — and give your reasons as to why you think it is or isn’t a good idea. Or why you think they made the decision. You can post your comment anonymously if you wish.

Update, September 2:

A knowledgeable reader points us to Sections 202-204 of the ASA Code, which defines the geographical regions, as to where the dividing line falls. (See below). So according to the ASA, Nebraska (host of next year’s Western Regional ASA “C” Half-National is in the “west”. (Explain that to sponsors buying plane tickets next September) If the theory of split nationals is to save on gas money, that sort of goes out the window for teams from the West, listed below, no? What is the meaningful difference between playing in Nebraska instead of Illinois? Negligible at best.

ASA Code Sections 202-204:

West = Texas, Minnesota, North & South Dakota, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, California, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Idaho, Montana, and Oklahoma.

East = those not listed above.

Using the State-by-State breakdown for 2008, here is where those teams would play in 2009:

West – 42 Teams – to Hastings, Nebraska in 2009

California – 14
Arizona – 12
New Mexico – 7
Utah – 3
Colorado – 1
Idaho – 1
Nevada – 1
Oregon – 1
Kansas – 1
Texas – 1

East – 8 teams – To Decatur, Illinois in 2009

Pennsylvania – 4
Alabama – 1
Georgia – 1
Massachusetts – 1
South Carolina – 1

Editor’s note: Actually, when you factor in the “bump up” rule, the East would lose two more teams (Landis, PA and Katman, MA), so the East would be down to 6 teams, at least using the list from this year’s teams.

Update, September 4:

273 votes cast, and I’ve yet to see anyone make a case for the split. One commenter noted the same:

From Ken on September 3, 2008 at 1:50 pm.
I would like to hear the reasons for the 30 or so yes answers that have been logged in. Even if they are anonymous. Just curious what good can come out of a split.

By the way, we have invited ASA to comment or explain the reason for the split. Nothing from them yet.

PRESCOTT, AZ — It may have been Landis Markets of Pennslyvania 9, Santa Rosa Fastpitch 0 in the champoinship game of the 2008 Men’s Class C Fastpitch National Tournament, but the Santa Rosa team again established itself as the No. 1 Class C team in California and one of the best teams in the nation for the second year in a row.

After finishing fourth in the 2007 nationals in Killeen, TX, with a 6-2 record, Santa Rosa moved up to second with an 8-2 record, giving them 14 wins in 18 national tournament games in two seasons.

Landis Market dominated the field by winning seven games in impressive fashion, but in the championship game on Sunday, a battle-weary Santa Rosa team, which played five consecutive games on the final day, played the Pennslyvania team on even terms until the seventh inning, when pitcher Jeff Want, a first-team All-American, was roughed up for eight hits and eight runs to break open a 1-0 game.

Want was superb in the championship game, blanking Landis on five hits until the fifth inning when tournament MVP Justin Stock led off with a double to right-center. He moved to third when Brent Moyer grounded out and scored on a two-out single by Frank Keating.

Stock was virtually unstoppable throughout the tournament, batting a phenomenal .818 (18 of 22), which included three home runs, three triples and three doubles with 15 RBIs and 20 runs scored. In addition, he was hit by pitches three times and walked twice, pushing his on base percentage to .852.



It remained 1-0 until the top of the seventh when Landis erupted against Want for eight hits and eight runs.

(more…)

One of our astute readers who posted a comment to the Poll question (below) noted that starting in 2010, the ASA will no longer play their Class “A”, “B” and “C” National Tournaments over the Labor Day Weekend. Instead, it will be a month earlier, over the final weekend of July. Sure enough:

ASA Code, Article 509 “Dates of Championship Play”:

EFFECTIVE 2010 Men’s Class A, Class B and Class C Fast Pitch. These National Championship Finals shall be scheduled on the weekend that includes the last Saturday in July and commence no earlier than 6:00 p.m. Wednesday and concluding no later than Sunday.

ASA National Championship Final – Post Championship Fact Sheet
Men’s Class C Fast Pitch National Championship Tournament

Number of Teams
50

Tournament Site
Prescott. Arizona

Champion
Landis Supermarket, Telford City, PA
Manager – Brent Moyer

MVP
Troy Hertzler, Landis Supermarkets, Telford, PA

Home Run Champion
Javier Fierro – 7 Home Runs
Savala Silverhawks, Bakersfield CA

Batting Champion
Justin Stock, Landis Supermarkets, Telford, PA

ASA All-American Fast Pitch Team

First Team

Position Player Team Name

IF Andy Devalles , Katman Sports, MA
IF Steve Vierra, Manor Dirtbags, TX
IF Frank Keating, Landis Supermarket, PA
IF Jeff Schultz, Santa Rosa, CA
OF Justin Stock, Landis Supermarket, PA
OF Alfonso Gonzalez, Tuscon Hurricanes, AZ
OF Josh Horton, Katman Sports, MA
OF Darryl Banks, Nor-Cal, CA
Utility Marc Young, Santa Rosa, CA
Utility Brent Moyer, Landis Supermarket
Utility Mo Duran, Tuscon Hurricanes, AZ
C Brian Schultz, Manor Dirtbags, TX
P Troy Hertzler, Landis Supermarket, PA
P Wiley Billings, Katman Sports, MA
P Jeff Want, Santa Rosa, CA

ASA All-American Fast Pitch Teams
Second Team

Position Player Team Name

IF Shane Reul, Katman Sports, MA
IF Danny Maclear, Santa Rosa, CA
IF Gil Pachero, Albuquerque Hitmen, NM
IF Gabe Moraga, G2, Wilcox, AZ
OF Matt Ratliff, Salt Lake Magic, UT
OF Eric Middough, Manor Dirtbags, TX
OF Lance Bobki, Piper Lake, KS
OF Charles Lewis, Nor-Cal, CA
Utility Carlos Gomez, Santa Rosa, CA
Utility Aaron Pennington, Piper Lake, KS
Utility Mike Gehman, Landis Supermarket
C Bobby Rosthenhausler, Tuscon Hurricanes, AZ
P Tony Mancha, Wolf Pack, NM
P Mark Blair, G2, Wilcox, AZ
P Johnny Mize, Manor Dirtbags, TX

Editor’s Note: In winning the MVP, Justin Stock of Landis Supermarket, Pennsylvania, batted .818 (18 of 22), which included three home runs, three triples and three doubles with 15 RBIs and 20 runs scored. In addition, he was hit by pitches three times and walked twice, pushing his on base percentage to .852.



The last time we saw numbers like this, it was another Pennsylvania player, Darren Zechman of PA Power in the 2005 ASA “C” Nationals in Stockton, going 21 for 35, a .600 avg, with 11 singles, 5 doubles, 3 triples, 2 home runs, and 12 RBI.

“Half-National Champions”? A Really Bad Idea

Not sure who cooked up this idea, but count me among those who think it’s half-baked.

This year’s 50-team tournament in Prescott had a large field of teams — one of the few divisions in Men’s Fastpitch that can still fill out of a full bracket of teams and make the champions feel like they’ve really won something.

Ask any player what is most important to them — what they play all year from — and more often than not, they will tell you “Nationals”. Their dream? To be a National champion. So now they’re going to split it in two? So the winners can tell people that they are “Half-National Champions”? A really, bad idea, in my humble opinion.

And holding the “West” region in Nebraska, with the “East” in nearby Illinois? Huh? What is the logic of that?

Of course there are more teams from states closer to the host city, but here is how the “West” and “East” stacked up for 2008

West – 43 Teams

California – 15
Arizona – 12
New Mexico – 7
Utah – 3
Colorado – 2
Idaho – 1
Nevada – 1
Oregon – 1

East – 7 teams

Pennsylvania – 4
Georgia – 1
Massachusetts – 1
South Carolina – 1
Kansas – 1*
Texas – 1 **

* Note: We put Kansas in the “East” — because it is west of the Rockies. However, under next year’s scenario, with the “West” region being hosted in Hastings, Nebraska — Kansas is actually much closer to Hastings, Nebraska, at the same longitude as Hastings. So do they play in the East or West? (They’re only a 4 hour drive south of Hastings, the host for the “Western” division. ) If the west, that would leave 6 teams in the “Eastern” region.

** For the same reason (longitude), for this example, we put Texas in the “east”, though many consider Texas to be part of the “west” (Southwest conference, for example).

Regardless, Kansas and Texas only change the numbers for 2008 by two teams. Start pulling other western region teams to the East, and you wind up with California and Arizona teams playing each other — something they already do more than they like. That’s why they go to a National – to face new teams.

So where does the ASA put the line of demarcation in separating teams? That information not yet available. A 2008 search of the “ASA Communications” center for Men’s fastpitch yields just two posts, one a story about a women’s bat that appears mis-indexed, and one about medical benefits of ASA membership. Nothing about the split-National, not to mention nothing about men’s fastpitch.

Want to build up the numbers in the other divisions of play? Fine. But don’t do it by devaluing the (former) ASA “C” National Championship.

Maybe instead of chopping up the “C” division, the ASA should be coming up with a central classification system that would make it a true “C” division — one without teams loaded with players from the USA National team, ISC, ISC II, ASA “A”, ASA “B”, NAFA AA Major, and NAFA AA divisions.

For 2008 ASA Nationals, there were (50) teams in the “C” division, with just (6) in the B” and (10) in the “A”. Wonder where all of the “B” and “A” teams were? Start by taking a look at the rosters at the “C” National in Prescott.

Anyone want to lay odds on how many of the 34 teams from California, Arizona and New Mexico “morph” into “B” teams and return to Prescott, Arizona in 2009? Some would say that “morphing” not necessary.

Italian Athletic Club from California won the ten team ASA “A” National Tournament at Gladstone, Missouri, with a 6-3 win over former ASA “A” National champs, New Image of Wisconsin. IAC was a perfect 4-0 in the tournament.

Click here for the final bracket.

How is this for building a program over the past four years?

Italian Athletic Club, CA:
2005 25th C natonals
2006 2nd place B nationals
2007 3rd A nationals
2008 A NATIONAL CHAMPS

New Image made it to the championship game by winning five games in a row, after losing its second game of the tournament to Team CR from Portland, Oregon. It’s fifth and final win of the tournament was against Team CR.

Final Order of Finish:

Champions – Italian Athletic Club – Stockton, CA 4-0
Runner-Up-New Image Fastpitch – Montfort, WI 6-2
3-Team CR-Portland – Vancouver, WA 2-2
4-Topeka Toros – Topeka, KS 2-2
5-HBC Lightning – Homer, MI 2-2
5-Broncos Fastpitch – Cerro Doreo, IL 1-2
7-National Investors – Albany, MO 1-2
7-Herzog – St. Joseph, MO 1-2
9-Pete’s Blue Softball – Swansea, IL 1-2
9-KC Angels – Kansas City, MO 0-3

Team CR’s Mark Bennett tossed a perfect game against New Image when the two teams met earlier in the tournament, Bennett’s first ever in a National tournament.